Attached is a teaching from Rick Joyner, (dated April 25 2003) which I felt was in error. I am sending you my thoughts on this and would appreciate your ideas on the matter if you'd like. Shalom shalom... ( I think it would be best to read Rick's article before my comments ). ______________________________________________________________
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An Elijah List Posting
http://www.elijahlist.com
The Mystery "To this Day" Between Christ and His is Church
By Rick Joyner
http://www.morningstarministries.org/
mpiservice@aol.com
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Note from Steve Shultz: Rick Joyner does a splendid job of speaking to young married couples regarding leaving their parents and cleaving to one another. Then, in the same article, he goes on to develop the great mystery of Marriage and how Paul used it to describe the mystery between Christ and the Church. Finally, he adds some wise counsel about two extreme positions regarding the Church and Israel. I guess you would say that this is quite a "meaty" article, teaching many different things, each subject leading into the next. Enjoy. -- Steve Shultz, Publisher
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Leave, Cleave, and Become
Our verse for this week is Ephesians 5:31:
"For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother,
and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh."
It is well known that one of the biggest problems in marriage can come from
the in-laws, but they can also be a great blessing. Even so, I have never
known in-laws who were causing major problems in a son or daughter's
marriage that were not sincerely trying to help, thought they were helping,
and in some ways may have been helping while still causing major problems.
It is crucial for every young couple to develop their own family and their
own identity. To have a healthy marriage we should not try to make our
spouse into a reflection of a parent. We must learn to cleave to each other
until we become one. To do this most couples really do need to "leave"
their fathers and mothers, literally getting far away from them. Of course
few young couples want to hear this, and even fewer parents do, but it is
usually essential for a healthy, lasting, marriage.
This is not to imply that there should not be a relationship with our
parents after we are married. However, our relationship to our parents must
radically change after marriage. Even so, it is normal for parents to try
to make their children into their own image, and to have a lasting
relationship with them. Didn't God, our Father, make His children in His
image, and want to have a lasting relationship with them? It is therefore
understandable that parents should want to do the same with our children.
However, just as the Lord also made each of His children to be unique, and
gave them remarkable freedom to develop their uniqueness, parents must do
the same with their children.
We must especially give our children space during the first few years of
their marriage. Each new family formed is also a new beginning in a way.
They must be free to form their own special identity and uniqueness. Only
then will they be strong enough to actually carry on the family name and
good traditions that it is right for them to do. Why is this?
"The Highest Form of Relationship . . ."
There was much talk a few years ago about the bondage of co-dependence and
how to be free of it. In a popular book written on this subject it was
acknowledged that the highest form of relationship was interdependence.
However, the only way one could enter into this highest form of unity was
to be delivered from co-dependence where one does not have his or her own
identity. To do this they had to go through the stage of independence until
their own identity had been formed and made strong enough to have an
interdependent relationship where their identity was not swallowed up and
lost. There is an important truth to this.
All infants are co-dependent for they cannot survive without their parents.
As they grow, gradually they will become more self-sufficient and
independent. If children are maturing in a healthy way they will become
more independent. However, there is a difference between the independence
of maturity and the independence of rebellion. Even so, parents who have
best raised their children have raised them to the level of maturity where
they do not need their parents. Then, once their independence is
established and they have their own unique identity, the relationship
between the parents and children can go on to the highest level of
relationship -- interdependence where there is a relationship while not trying
to consume each other's identity, but fully appreciating each other's
uniqueness.
"I Am Speaking With Reference to Christ and the Church"
This is important to know in marriage relationships. Paul did not write
this to the Ephesians about marriage relationships, but as he goes on to
say Ephesians 5:32,
"This mystery is great; but I am speaking with
reference to Christ and the church."
Paul was talking about the marriage between Christ and His church. This
remains a "mystery" to this day that many still do not comprehend, and is
becoming increasingly crucial that we do. So how does it apply?
In this storyline of the Bible, the Father married Israel and together they
had a Son. The Son was also to have a bride -- the church. From the very
beginning the mother, Israel, tried to impose herself on the young bride of
Christ through the "Judaisers" who tried to bring her under the yoke of the
Law. This was an attempt to make the young church completely co-dependent
and swallow up her unique identity. If this had happened, there would have
been no New Covenant, and eventually all of the truth of the Messiah would
have been swallowed up. There had to be a separation -- a leaving until the
church was able to establish her own identity with Christ, her Husband.
The church has now gone through her independent stage, and though her
marriage has been about as rocky as Israel's was with the Father, we are
coming to the time of reconciliation, healing, and ultimate union. It is no
accident that as this is happening there are still modern forms of the
first century heresy that are still trying to draw the church under the
yoke of the Law and swallow her up in Judaism again. This will not succeed,
but if it did, it would completely jeopardize the very purpose of the church.
A Powerful Union -- "One New Man"
Appreciating the Uniqueness of Our Identities
There is much controversy today about what is referred to as "replacement
theology." This is the theology whereby the church completely replaces
Israel in God's plan, and all of the promises that were given to Israel are
really meant for the church. This is to some degree a reaction to Israel's
attempts to destroy the unique identity of the church, so the church has
also gone through a long period, centuries, of trying to destroy the unique
identity of Israel. Now, possibly in reaction to the replacement theology,
there are "counter-replacement" theologies being promoted whereby Israel
completely displaces the church in God's plan at the end. Both of these
theologies are in error, and disregard major portions of Scripture in both
the Old and New Testaments.
In the end there will be a unity in the entire family of God as we read
about in Ephesians 2, with the enmity between Israel and the church being
abolished. This will result in such a powerful union in the end that it
will be called "one new man." However, this will not come by either the
church or Israel swallowing up the identity of the other, but by each
becoming strong enough in their own identity to enter into the highest form
of unity -- interdependence.
This does not imply that Israel will establish its righteousness through
the Law. Israel will acknowledge their Messiah, and the cross as the only
remedy for sin and reconciliation with God. However, there was always
intended to be uniqueness between the Hebrew believers and the Gentile
believers. This is why the Lord had an "apostle to the Jews" and an
"apostle to the Gentiles." Otherwise there would have been no need for such
distinctions.
The way I become one with my wife is not by making her into a man, but by
appreciating her uniqueness. The same kind of maturity will be required
between the church and Israel so that the ultimate unity can take place.
This remains a mystery to most, but when we mature we will begin to
understand it, and then enter into it.
( end of article )
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Shalom Rick
I wanted to comment on your recent article (attached) on marrage, and your conclusions that a good marrage should start with with a distant separation. As a jewish person now living in Israel, I disagree with your teaching.
Culturaly and historicly in biblical times the jewish tradition actualy did quite the opposite of what you teach. Family very much were a close net community, and as a result there was many benefits to this kind of support in the early stages of marrage. In biblical times it was not uncommon to get married or engaged as young as 13-15 years of age, and in these early years much support and education came from the in-laws (particularly the grooms side). I can see that in todays western world society that the dinamics of family that God intended have been lost in large part. But the answer I believe is in returning back to God's ways rather than re-enforce separation of family. There is no question that the word says, "a man shall leave his fathaer and mother", and begin a new family. But the way this was adhered to in early days was by building an addition onto the family home, or by building another house on the property of those who had sufficent land.
I remember sitting in on a teaching from John Sanford in Toronto Canada back in 1994 where he also taught on the signifigance of maintaining close family ties. That there is a healthy Godly way of doing this, to ultimately build and establish strong family ties. Not only in each little family unit, but also in the family of God. We have been separated and living distantly from each-other (jew & gentile) for far too long. It is time the body of Messiah began to return to her jewish scriptual roots of life in God.
It was in this context that Yeshua (Jesus) said: "In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
(John 14:2-3) The people who were there listening to Yeshua's words clearly understood his anology of going to prepare a place for His bride. It was customary in those days (and even today amongst orthodox) to spend the next season after the betrothel to build an addition onto the house of the groom's father. There was no confusion in what Yeshua spoke to His jewish listeners.
He purposely used this analogy because it so very well illustrated the kingdom of God and the Lord's plans. It is in todays society where we have a divorce rate of over 51%. Not in those days of this kind of community living, with parents who love the Lord. Another example of this kind of community living is illustrated in Yeshua taking up his earthly father's trade of carpenter. Many carried on in the family business and trade then and now. And later as He reached the age of 13 He declared to His earthly parents, that He was about His Father's business. (Implying that now He would also begin to follow in the work of His heavenly Father). It is in this kind of community that the newly wed mother's were taught the skills of raising their children etc.
Also you talk about continuing this distinction on into the body of Messiah. Here as well I feel you have errored. I by no means am saying there is a need for gentiles to be like jews, or for jews to become like the church. But I do see scriptualy a need to become one body, "One NewMan". Where the caracter of Messiah is taken on by both jew and gentile who are now following Yeshua our Messiah. Many of these (so called) jewish traditions that many in the church today are ignorant of, and as a result resistant to, are scriptural and God's ways. For example to observe the feasts of God in Leveticas, is not jewish tradition it is the commandment of the Lord. The church has replaced Passover with Easter, ignoring that Easter has proven pagan roots and trditions. And rather than aknowlging the feasts of the Lord the church has substituted pagan ritchuals such as the Sunday worship in place of the Sabbath. The Sabbath was God's idea not the jewish peoples. Sunday is exactly what it says, it is a day that was sit aside to worship the sun god from Babylonian times. A lot of christians today say the reason for worshipping on Sunday is from this verse in the gospel of Mark: "Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons". (Mark 16:9). But a quick study of the word of God would show that the meaning of "early on the first day" was actualy Saturday evening at sundown. For many years the ignorance of God's word has been a great source of division, and my prayer is that through greater education and understanding of God's word that the divisions would be healed, and the gap (distance) to removed from the body of Messiah.
From the times of Constantine there has been a concerted effort to de-scripturise (if that is any kind of word?) the faith of the God of the bible. But many as yourself in this article have affirmed this, in calling it resisting being judised. In Romans chapter 11 the word tells us that the gentiles are grafted into the tree (family) of Israel. You are adopted and no longer a foriegner of the common wealth of Israel (Eph. 2). The truth is God's design was most diffinite in bringing the gentiles into adoption with God's chosen people Israel. And it is in accepting and joining this God designed entity that truely the "One New Man" will arise in these last days to impact this lost world. The dividing wall that was brought down in Ephesians chapter two, was the walls of unbelief in the God of Israel, so that gentiles could join in the plan of salvation which the Lord established through a nation called Israel. Before the gospel was preached to the gentiles there was a wall of division between the gentile and God (and God's people), but by the blood of Yeshua this wall was brought down. The Lord did not instute a new relegion, but as was prophecied in Hosea "I will call a people, not my people, my people".(Hosea 1:9-10)
God's plan from the very begining was to call out a Holy nation, a Royal Priesthood. And this nations name was and still is Israel, He gave the nation its name not man. The Lord changed the name to become His nation no longer being called Jacob but Israel. It is to this nation He has called His family to be a part of (Romans 11), it is Jerusalem here on earth that is the foundations of the earth, and it is the New Jerusalem that He will call His family of followers to live in forever.
I hope you can understand what it is I have been trying to say through this e-mail to you. I respect you as a prophet of the Lord, and appreciate much of your teachings. But in this case I truely believe you have missed a great deal of scriptual understanding. And because you have a large audience, I believe it is important that you teach from good healthy understanding of the word of God. By the way this word came to us in a very much God designed way. It was through the jewish people the Lord gave the scriptures and the Messiah. Could it be that their understanding and way of living was conducisive to bringing understanding of God's ways?
I would sure appreciate it if you would take some time to evaluate what I have said and look at the word and the heart of God concerning these statements you have made concerning marrage and how it is the jewish model that Yeshua used to describe His reason for going to the Father. Because once you catch that ubderstanding it will flow down through and cause you to want to change most of what you have written in your article.
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Allalouf, Simantov
ouziel16@netvision.net.il
46 Harav Yitzhak Nissim
Apt. # 4
Har Homa Jerusalem 95401
Israel